Four The Win
There are laying systems in abundance these days. Some are good, some not so good, but every now and again you come across one that turns out to be absolutely exceptional and that’s exactly what happened to us this month.
When I first discovered Four The Win I was instantly impressed with both the simplicity of the system and the fact that it concentrates on hot favourites whose average odds are just 1/1. On top of that it takes just 10 minutes a day to find the selections, so straight away I could see we had an easily operated, potentially profitable, system on our hands.
This is what I had to say about it prior to starting our test:
I’m a big fan of the old ”Keep It Simple Stupid” adage when it comes to horse racing systems, because if a system has too many rules it’s almost certainly been backfitted and if this is the case, it’s highly unlikely that what happened in the past will continue to prove profitable in the future.
That’s a cold hard fact I’m afraid, so if you ever purchase a system and find that it’s practically unworkable in practice because of the number of rules involved, do yourself a favour and treat it with extreme caution. In the vast majority of cases it will save you time, effort and expense.
Someone who agrees with me on this is Joe from Four The Win.
Joe’s created a horse racing laying system that’s based on solid form-based principles, that’s simple in the extreme and that targets runners at the bottom end of the odds range, so unlike many of the laying systems I see nowadays, the odd winner here or there is never going to wipe out your betting bank. It’s a very selective system that quite simply highlights runners with a weak profile in races that are competitive enough to warrant taking them on.
This is exactly how bookmakers operate and if it’s your goal to succeed as a betting exchange layer, you could do worse than follow the time-proven principles of traditional bookmaking.
Joe’s system comes packaged in a short, well-written, 16 page ebook that explains everything you need to know clearly and concisely. You’ll know exactly what your selections are likely to be the evening before racing and the rules of the system are all very straightforward.
I’ll be testing Four The Win for the next month with a £1000 starting bank and I’ll be aiming to win £25 on each bet, using a non-aggressive version of the Fibonacci staking plan (as is advised in the book) to recoup losses from winning bets.
We then tested Four The Win for the full month of March (you can check the full results here) and to say we were impressed with what happened would be an understatement!
This is what Craig said when he wrote his final review:
Well, we’ve come to the end of the road for our months test of Four The Win and it’s been a fascinating month. When I first saw the system I was a little sceptical. There are only four simple rules to be followed, and although I could see the logic behind the system, I was a little apprehensive that the system would work at the prices we were laying at. Include a loss recovery staking plan and I had visions of money going down the tube - oh how wrong was I???
I have been astounded by the performance of Four The Win, and I do mean absolutely astounded. In the 30 days of testing we made 16 points profit, and when you consider the average odds we were laying at were evens, and that a large amount of selections were actually odds on, that is simply amazing. We returned a 41.5% profit on our bank, which is a huge ROI and again at the odds is, quite simply, outstanding!
Bare in mind that this is a system that will take you ten minutes a day to find your selections and you have what must be one of the most simple, straightforward, yet ultimately rewarding systems I have seen.
It’s no secret that I’m a big fan of laying, and some of the systems I’ve used in the past have had good success laying at the higher end of the odds market, but at that end you will be laying over the odds and a winner can cause a bit of a dent in your profits, but with Four The Win the odds are almost always within a couple of percent of official SP and often will beat SP because its all hot, hot favourites we’re laying.
So, to sum up, Four The Win is a laying system that lays at an average price of evens, uses a sensible loss recovery plan (which only twice did we go as far as the 3rd bet), has a strike rate in the region of 70% (meaning it will profit at level stakes) and is incredibly easy to operate. Add in the fact that Joe has provided us with excellent customer service, offers a tipping email service, and was only too willing to answer any of our queries and I have no choice but to give Four The Win….
…..FIVE OUT OF FIVE!
Now, some of you might look at the 16 points profit we generated and not be overly impressed with that, but in terms of return on investment this has exceeded everything we’ve ever reviewed on here multiple times over. Keep in mind that many laying systems target runners at 5/1, 6/1, or even 8/1, so your liabilities are 5x, 6x, or 8x higher than with Four The Win. This means that if you were operating on a liability basis you could effectively use 5x, 6x, or 8x larger stakes and when you look at it that way, the returns from this system are absolutely HUGE!
I can honestly say that I haven’t come across anything as appealing as this before. It pinpoints short priced favourites who lose with amazing accuracy and takes just 10 minutes a day to find them, so if you’ve been searching for something that’s extremely easy to operate, profitable in the extreme, and that won’t have you quaking in your boots every time one of your lay bets goes and wins, then look no further than Four The Win.
This one is the business - I love it!
Until next time,
Online Betting Exposed
I forgot to mention that both the results from the test and those on my site, even though have some different selections are both showing profit for the period.
Scott,
Yes there do seem to be different selections between the results. I’m not sure if they are using different filters or what time they are placing bets as this can cause a difference in results if they’re not placing them at the off.
System results often differ from other users for many reasons. It is not always negatively either. There have been many occasions where I have not been matched on FTW and other users have been where the horse lost and I have not included it in my results.
This is a reason why I am considering having an email service only for FTW as it would help minimise these discrepancies. BTW is run like that and everybody has had the same results as the website which has been nice and I haven’t had a single mail complaining about the differing results!
Joe
On your blog you refer to an independent system test.
Look at the results for this test, then compare to your own results…
eg, 19th June - you have 3 selections, test had 7
20th, you 5 selections, test 6
21st, you 2 selections, test 4
26th, you 0 selections, test 2
Why are there such massive discrepancies with the results? Nearly all of the odds are well within the odds range specified so would qualify easily. There seems to be differences in the number of selections almost every day.
I’ve no problem with the odd result here and there as prices can change, but if you compare the test results with your own there are far too many missing for that too be the case.
Hello all, hope you are well!
Firstly I would like to say that, yes, I do follow my own systems and therefore have had the same peaks and troughs as other users. Those who have started FTW1 in the last 2 months I am sure are down but those who started at the beginning of the year are up like me and I’m sure by the year end will be happily in profit also if it’s stick with. In addition FTW Football everyone made profit with, JFS is in profit, BTW is in profit… What more do you want? System have ups and downs…
I was indeed on holiday during the infamous bad run which has been well documented on here, hence the lack of the results on my website. I did however agree with someone (can’t remember who, but it will be on the history here somewhere) that if they collated the average users results I would happily upload the results to the site. I agreed to this on the condition that someone else collated the data. I have received nothing so have posted nothing. The offer is still open…
@ Francis - Yes May and June have been bad months for FTW1 however FTW2 has had a brilliant June. The ‘lead balloon’ backing system is infact in profit you may be dismayed to hear. I had about 20 FTW customers using it since 27th May and is about £1200 up since then. Feel free to ask any of them to confirm this, I will forward your mail if you like and in addtion would be grateful if you did not give your views on something you have absolutely no knowledge or experience of. Is it not a little unwise to base your views on one system on the strength of another?
@ Stewboss - Yes I offered you a refund as I sensed that you were not happy with your purchase. Frankly I didn’t understand how you came to your results using past data but thought that if you actually used the system for real for a period may realise that it works. You should already have 10 winners from 11 in the last week alone. The offer still stands and will surprised if in a few months paper trading you request it.
Yes I have infact had many problems with PC’s over the last year. I have a burnt out desktop with information on the HD still waiting to be recovered. Why does this sound so unbelievable to you? Is this enough information for you have a niggling doubt in your mind?
My recent problems include trouble with my broadband, network adapter and motherboard, all within the space of a week, though I do not expect you to believe that either, nor do I particularly care.
If you would like to meet up for a beer and discuss anything you are not happy about, I will be happy to oblige. I am not hiding anything like I suspect you think I am.
@ Scott - With regard to Rose Diamond, at the time I last updated the results (prior to yesterday) the horse had not run. It was in the afternoon where the previous horse had run and Rose hadn’t hence no result. I am not sure of the other selection you mention as it is not in my results, was it definitely a qualifying bet and if so what were the odds?
I must say it does amaze me how little length of time some people judge systems by. If it does not make them rich over night, a week or a month then it is obviuosly crap! A long term mentality is needed to succeed with betting and if it’s not going your way, then rather than discard it to the bin, why not paper trde with it for a longer period? i.e. a year. This will give a much better indication and even then isn’t a long enough period of time.
[/moan]
Anyway, I’m just happy to be back! Good times.
Joe
Regarding the results of these systems, it appear to me that some results are being left out.
If we take FTW2, latest results on the site are up to 20th June. On that day, Why no mention of Rose Diamond, winner of the 6:30 at Newmarket? There is also no mention of Deyas Dream, 5th in the 7:25 at Goodwood?
Am I missing something here? Are others noticing this?
Stewboss
Re the Japanese Football System.
I can check past data if required, but the one statistic that the system is based on has only been valid for 2006 and 2007 seasons. The current season is following suit. Seasons 01-05 inclusive followed the more ‘normal’ pattern of results, which would mean far more staking using this system to generate any profit.
I wouldn’t personally go overboard on following this system without finding reasons as to why the results are working out favourably first. Football leagues around the world have a habit of returning back to statistics that you would generally expect after a period of time (whether it is weeks, months or indeed years).
Having said all that, this system can work, but you’ve got to remember one very important thing. You must be able to place your lays every single week of the season. If you miss a week because of holidays or some unforeseen mishap then that could very well be the week that all the results go your way. A few missed games could mean big stakes in the following weeks to recover profits. That’s a big commitment to keep for such a long time.
I doubt very much this system has been used on the Dutch League as the prices available in many of the matches are very high. The anomaly this system tries to exploit has already been noted by the layers over the past few years. Again, it can work, but you’ll need to work out what your ROI is to see if it’s worthwhile. I’ve got enough historical football prices so I may run this on the dutch leagues in the next week or so.
As regards charging £30 for this, well, if you have any knowledge of the general statistics in football leagues you should be able to work out what this system involves
On the flip side, Joe has apparently given up his day job and follows his own sytems for his income.
If this is the case he hasn’t earnt a great deal this year and is suffering with the rest of his customers.
This is obviously not withstanding the sales of the systems, which wouldn’t keep a roof over my head.
Cheers
Mark
Yes, I too doubt the transparency of his results.It’s easy to quote,say a 228 point yearly profit for a previous year,but there are no detailed results to back it up.It would be a simple matter,though rather timely,to dig them out from Betfair’s historical database?
It seems that this boy is going system selling crazy these past few weeks,with football systems,FTW ancillary systems, backing systems,tipping services,you name it he seems to have it.It is a veritable conveyer belt of systems!
RE Stewboss,there are good systems out there,I do quite a few,but FTW probably won’t be one of them - I’ve just lost too much from it.
Craig,
The results are pretty bang upto date, I don’t think we’ll ever see the run of bad results whilst he was on holiday as it would just look too bad for the system.
I don’t want to bad mouth Joe, I do however think the results are misleading to anyone happening upon his website without all the facts.
Cheers
Mark
Hey Guys thanks for the info. Can you tell me hat works for you. Is any of the stuff on this site good. I do like Betalay it seems to work??
The results or the broadband malarkey???
When I talked to Joe he wasn’t best pleased about it as it had already been a couple of weeks he’d been having problems….I can’t remember which company it is, but I could dig the email out and check
I wouldn’t stand for that sort of s**t service!
Mark, I spoke to Joe the other day and he is having major broadband troubles, that’s why he’s not updated his site lately. I can’t remember when it’s due to be fixed, but I think it was around the second week in July, although don’t quote me on that
Yeah, I think Joe is a genuine guy it’s just that the system has not worked this year, and I mean year as he may show a profit on the website, but as has been documented here it misses out a terrible patch whilst he was on holiday.
This bad run takes it into the negative.
He did mute that he would update the results but it hasn’t happened yet, and probably won’t as it really is on a bad run.
It’s also a shame there are no detailed results from the year which made 28k
Cheers
Mark
Ah right, sorry I don’t know anything about that.
The Japanses football system is on Joe’s site.
He sells it for £30 or similar.
Nah, I like Joe, a lot actually, Stewboss. He’s made very little selling his systems and I don’t think he’s out for the sale like most of them are. I honestly do think he’s a genuine bloke. Craig likes him too.
What’s the Japanese football system? Is that Ross or someone, the guy who sends out the mailshots all the time? Can’t actually remember his name now, just remember the impressive mailshots and one of those was about an Eastern syndicate or something.
If this was a hard time of year, you would expect to see similar results for this time last year which I don’t think you do.
I’ve just started with Back the Win. Got a winner in race one and then had 4 second places. Won on the 5th and final race in the sequence but still made a loss for the sequence. Currently £5 down but it’s early days. I figured it was worth £15 for the first month of tips.
Has anyone seen his Japanese football system?
The results he posts on his page are pie in the sky. He quotes winning net of BF commission but his odds are bookmaker prices. This is a laying system so there’s the usual problem / issue there.
I sent Joe a detailed spreadsheet back testing / challenging his results. He had no answer to my questions and offered me a refund after a paper trade period.
I’m beginning to wonder about this guy and his operations. He claims he lost most of his historical data in a hardware / backup fault.
There’s just a niggling doubt in my mind that all is not what it seems with Joe…
What do others think?
Trader, I don’t think FTW would work out with level stakes, I think it’s the staking plan that makes this system, although I appreciate it’s not been great of late.
I’ve had a lot of other commitments lately and so haven’t been using it day to day, but I’ve been keeping an eye on Joe’s results, which did seem to pick up for a bit there. Personally, I still really like the system, but I think this may just be hard time of year for it as Paul Pro said. It might be worth waiting until August/September time before starting again.
Do you guys think this system would work on just level bets ??
Trader