The Betalay Horse Racing System
I’ve done a lot of research into horse racing systems over the years, so when a system lands on my desk nowadays I’ve normally got a good idea of whether it’s likely to work or not within a couple of minutes of looking at it. Of course, many of the systems I see are just plain junk, but occasionally you come across one that’s worth investigating and that’s what happened to me this week…
The system I’m talking about is The Betalay Horse Racing System and the first thing that hit me about this system is that (a) it appears to be incredibly easy to operate and (b) the advertised profits are incredible…. which is exactly what we’re looking for, if it’s all true!
Before we get started, I’d like you to take a look at this web page.
The reason I want you to look at this first is because I’m going to explain some of the things they’ve done to achieve the spectacular figures they advertise and that way you’ll be in a better position to make an educated decision about whether it’s for you or not.
Secondly, I should tell you that although this is listed under “Betting Books“, the PDF file you download is only 5 pages in size, so don’t expect to have to spend days trawling through chapter upon chapter of information. It’s a simple system that can be easily condensed into 5 pages, but in my opinion that’s a good thing - cut straight to the chase and all that.
Now, as far as systems go, this really is about as simple as they come. There are only three rules involved, you’ll know exactly which races to bet in within seconds of looking at the cards and you only ever lay one - easily identified - horse in each race. The system operates in the last few minutes before each race starting, but you can automate it using Malcolm Pett’s excellent Grey Horse Bot software, so even if you’re working during the day you can easily set it up in the morning and leave the software to do the rest for you on auto-pilot, which is a bonus.
To sum up the benefits:
- It’s VERY easily operated.
- You can completely automate everything.
- The advertised profits will make your mouth water.
That’s all well and good, but now let me get into the nitty gritty of it for you….
I was able to backtest this system, somewhat loosely because the software I used wouldn’t allow me to run reports using the exact odds range they recommend, but I was able to get it pretty close and (in my opinion at least) that’s good enough for our purposes here.
I’m in little doubt that their reports are accurate and that the selections they recommend you lay are 100% correct, but there are two things you need to know about. The first is that the numbers they display on their website don’t include Betfair’s 5% commission (although you’re probably on less than 5%) and the second is that the odds they’ve used are calculated to the industry Starting Price (SP) and not to the higher odds you can expect to lay at on Betfair.
When you factor these in it does have a detrimental effect on the advertised profits, but in my opinion the very worse case scenario would still see you showing a profit every year and the very best scenario - when you lay at as close to SP as possible, with a reduced BF commission rate of say 3.5% - would still see you generating an exceptional profit every year.
From a personal point of view I would attempt to fully automate it, so judging the odds before the off wouldn’t come into the equation, and I’m also on roughly 3.5% commission, so I would expect to be in a position to make a profit of perhaps half of what they advertise every year.
I can’t see how you would ever make the advertised profits, but hey - looking over the last few years it wouldn’t be unrealistic to think that you could make an extra £15K a year doing this and when you combine it with the Grey Horse Bot you can do the whole damn thing on auto-pilot.
That’s all good to me.
Another thing the author recommends is using a “recovery plan” where you attempt to recoup a percentage of any loss on your next four bets and again this is an easy thing to do when you use the Grey Horse Bot. I’m not always keen on these kind of staking plans, but when you consider that the strike-rate of the system is a healthy 88%, I think that in this instance you could (and probably should) use it to boost your profits from the system quite substantially.
All in all, I like The Betalay Horse Racing System and when used in conjunction with the Grey Horse Bot I think you’ll have a consistent, completely automatic, money-maker on your hands.
This is one that I’ll happily recommend…
Until next time,
Online Betting Exposed
I’m interested in the horse racing bot you mention. Is this something you use yourself? Do you know if I could get a trial of it?
Davey, yes I use it myself - it’s excellent. I’ve had it for over a year and every month I’ve seen it evolve. I think it’s the best betting bot on the market now.
You would need to ask them about a trial. I don’t think so but it’s only £15 to get started with it and I’m sure you’ll be impressed.
Paul, thank you. I downloaded the manual from their site and will have a read through it.
I’ve read the manual and I’m not 100% sure it will do what I need. Could you answer some questions for me by any chance? I won’t take up much of your time.
Davey, please use the contact page on the site and I’ll pick up your questions there. I don’t want to post my email here or it will get picked up by spam bots.
Thank you so much for your help today. I’ve purchased Grey Horse Bot and Betalay. I was mainly interested in the bot for something else, but this will let me get started. Thanks again.
I’ve got Grey Horse Bot too Davey and I’ll echo Paul’s comments about it. It’s a fantastic product and the support from Malcolm and the gang is second to none.
Davey, how you going with the Grey Horse Bot and Betalay. Would you be able to update me if it does work? I mean if you’re winning consistently? It really sounds interesting.
Leah, I emailed Davey to ask him if he would reply, but I can tell you that I’ve been using both - just to small stakes so far - and I’m pleased with the results. If you’re going to use the bot and set the staking feature to recoup the losses after one goes against you then I would recommend starting with small stakes until you get a feel for it. I definitely think this is the best way to do it rather than sitting doing everything manually.
Hi Leah,
I only started using it 4 days ago but most of the meetings have been cancelled due to bad weather. I’m showing a profit from the bets made and do like the bot a lot. All of the bets it’s made have been correct. I can post another message at the end of the week with more information.
Davey
I’d like to hear how it’s going with Betalay and GHB aswell Davey. If you could post an update when you’ve used it for a few more days I would appreciate it. Thanks.
Will do Jim. It was a good day today. Went to work and left the bot running, and came back to £80 in winnings. More than I earned at work! I’m impressed with it so far.
A quick update - I’ve been using ‘automatic Betalay’ for just over a week and so far I’ve made £260 profit using £10 stakes. Lucky start? Maybe. I’ll post another report next week.
Impressive Davey! If it keeps up like that you’ll be well happy
Looking forward to your next update.
Paul,
The Betalay results have a very high strike rate.
Do you think your technique of automated doubles & trebles would work well?
JohnV
John, this is a laying system so it wouldn’t work in the same way. I think the best way to work Betalay is to use the staking feature in the Grey Horse Bot, or alternatively simply to lay each of them to level stakes.
Two week results - I took a knock one day when nothing seemed to work in my favour and I missed two days that looked like I would have profited in between. I’ve now made £390 with £10 bets, however. I’m reluctant to up my stake until I bank some more but I might do it soon.
Thanks for the update Davey. You’re saving me a job here
I had to work away this week and only caught three days worth of bets. I did make a profit again however. I’m off for Cheltenham now so I’ll be in a position to run the bot every single day. I was also thinking about testing some new strategies with it this week.
I was close to buy go fibonacci system, but benjamin’s support is not the best I have came across.. I was just asking if people that work all day could use the system.. here is his answer
“The system is for me, and no I don’t have to work.
If people want to buy it and have the time to use it, they will make money.
If not, then I wont lose any sleep because of it.
Take it or leave it.”
I think that could be better.. It was just a question if I had to sit i front of the pc all day to use the system, and I guess I have to, because he didn’t answer the question about using a bot..
So I think I stick to betalay, if it is good.. and it sounds like it is
Gavin, I almost laughed out loud when it heard that. I say “almost”, because it’s just ludicrous. He probably owns one of those “I’m better than you are” T-shirts too.
Without giving the whole thing away, I’ll give you a quote from GoFibonacci……
“How confident do you feel that you could select 8 ****** in a row and them all to go on to win? If it were that easy bookmakers would soon be bankrupt. They’re not.”
I did some research on this and I can give him the answer to that question. From the 1st January 2006 to the 22nd February 2008, when I did my research, ****** happened 41 times in a sequence of 2780 bets. So it does happen and when it does you may feel the need to go jump in the river, because if you were using their staking plan your whole world might just have collapsed.
“Take it or leave it?”
I’d just take him up on his offer and leave it
I have bought the betalay and Greyhorsebot. I will test the system to see if it is working effectively. This week will be my test and next week I will start to bet with real money.
I will keep it update with you every weeks here.
Jono
Paul, I will do the same
Jono, that sounds great!
Hi Everyone,
I’ve been reading Paul’s review of Betalay and everyone else’s opinions and experiences with it.I’ve been looking into arbing but that seems to take far too much time and a large bankroll,coupled with not a few bookieaccounts and a lot of STRESS!. I’ve been doing the online casino/pokerroom bonus hunting for a couple of years now.Good money then but the casinos are tightening up alarmingly.Still,I’ve made £25000 from it and am still doing the dwindling opportunities every month.
But what I’m looking to do now is apply some of that diligence and patience to Betfair and the opportunities it offers.Betalay and GreyHorseBot seems a good choice and I look forward to hearing of your experiences with the strategy and software.I think small stakes would be the way to go initially when I buy it?
Cheers
Hi Bernie,
If you’re going to use any kind of recovery plan, especially with laying systems, then I’d definitely recommend starting out with small stakes until you get a feel for it. The bot is excellent and we’ve had some really good feedback from people who are using Betalay. The stats go back 8 years, so I can’t see it changing any time soon.
It’s still very much recommended
~ Paul
Want to tell you that I made £16 profit on two days so far from banking of £200.
Good start! Will update with you in the next four days.
Cheers!
Hi Again,
Thanks for the great website. The info provided here is second to none and Craig & Paul are doing a fantastic job. I’ve taken the plunge and purchased Grey Horse Bot and Betalay. Very interesting stuff and the bot coupled with the tutorials and support is great. The betalay system is quite easy to get the gist of but Greyhorsebot will take a wee while to get to grips with. However to use it with Betalay is user friendly:they provide most of the automated settings with the strategy.
What I’d like to ask is this: is the “recovery plan” for betalay similar to a martingale type of staking plan? If it is and you factor in losing liabilities, it could get wildly out of control. Like losing the first bet of £10 (your base bet) at 5/1 your down £50, then losing the second bet at 5/1 (£50 to recoup first loss) again it’s suddenly £250 down? I think that’s right though I’m probably wrong. However looking through the first 3 years results, I think that laying bet losses never have exceeded four straight losses in a row, so that’s encouraging.
Anyway,I’m going to take a couple of days to get used to the bot and papertrade with it before I get started. Cheers
Hi Bernie,
Setting it up with the bot isn’t really difficult at all. The bot has a lot of features you don’t actually need for this, but you should have a good play around with it anyway as it’s superb.
The recovery plan they talk about isn’t exactly the same as the Martingdale system. They tell you to split any loss over the next 4 races, so it’s far less aggressive than the Martingdale, but using the bot you can even split it across the next 5 races and that’s what I’d recommend. The smoother you can make any kind of recovery plan on your nerves the better
~ Paul
Cheers Paul for the quick reply.I’m a bit confused with what you say though.O.K. say for instance I begin Betalay with a 2000 unit bank. £5 bet with £10,000 bankroll using greyhorsebot.I win a few £5 bets then my lay horse wins so I lose £25 at 5/1 liability.Now what? Do I simply continue every race thereafter with a flat bet £5 knowing that I’ll sooner rather than later claw back my loss? Or does the staking plan you highlighted hinge on the very next 5 bets immediately preceding a loss?For instance, if I win a bet over the next 5 after a loss then I claw back my last loss completely? The manual’s explanation is a wee bit ambiguous bit it’s probably me as I’m a beginner.If you could cite a quick example of the above staking plan based on my bankroll that would be great.
Also, if I do betalay with a 2000 unit/piont bankroll,do you think there would be any chance going bust?I’ve now trawled through all the stats from there site since 2000 and it appears very solid.What do you think?
Ta,Bernie
To simplify things, if you were doing it manually and you lost £100 on one race what you would do is increase your next 5 bets by £20 each to claw back the loss on the losing bet.
I can’t remember what size of bank they recommend in the book, if any, and I don’t have it with me at the moment, but I think a 2000 point bank would be more than enough to operate this. That’s using the recovery plan - you could operate it with far less using level stakes.
Hope this helps.
Is this the same system as Betwise. The results look identical.
I’ve never heard of that Ant and I tried a quick search, but couldn’t find anything solid about it. There was one thing from Sportsworld called Betwise, but the results pages were missing.
Thanks Paul for that.I’m going to parer trade for a few days to get the hang of things.I’ll let you know how I fare.
Chas, you shouldn’t have two or three selections in the same race, only one. Even using the bot I don’t think I’ve ever had more than one selection in a race.
If you’re using the bot with something else that selects multiple runners in a race and you use the staking feature then I believe it treats the loss of each runner individually and attempts to recoup them all. I’ve tried loads of things with the bot and if you set it to recoup over 5 races then I’d say that it’s definitely a non-aggressive way of doing things. The stakes do build up, but not to the point where I’ve been on the verge of a heart attack over it
With the grey horse bot does anyone know the optimum setting for Time before off (in seconds?) as if all the GHB users click in at the same time prices could be unstable!
Fraser, you’re right in what you say so best advice I can give you is select a random number between 30 and 90 seconds, that way there shouldn’t be a rush of bets at exactly the same time.
Thanks for your advice - great web site for punters who want informed decisions before taking the plunge. Do you know with the arb system you recommend how many betting exchange acounts do you have to set up…plus by the time you’ve phoned them all surely the odds have changed?
Fraser, thanks for the kind words, that’s exactly what we are aiming to do
As for UCantLose, you need to open a huge number, but they supply you with a whole list of the ones they recommend so you don’t have to go looking yourself.
Occasionally, the odds will have changed by the time you get there but, in my experience, I get around 90 - 95% of the advised bets on. Also, I do it online as you can open all your accounts at once and check the odds before placing the bets.
I am a novice at this and notice that in the Betalay 2008 published results there is a sequence in January as follows: (L = losing bet W = winning bet)
L W W W W L L L L W W W L L W L
How would a recovery plan splitting the loss over 4 or 5 races cope with this sequence?
It all depends on what the odds were Terry. Your stakes would obviously increase, more so than any other period in the last 8 years I would have thought, but I couldn’t tell you what they’d increase to. What I can tell you is that I was using this in January, with the bot, and I’ve yet to come across anything that’s had me quaking in my boots, or barely touching the balance I’ve built up with it.
How do you automate the bot to recover any losing stakes. I have looked but can’t seem to find the right button.
At first what you need to do is enable it in the Bot Configuration section Ed, they’ll send you a key to use with it and then you need to set your options in the staking section of the options screen.
I’d recommend reading through the manual before you do anything though, just in case
I am setting up the bot as we speak and I have put in a 5 point staking plan. Does anyone know whether it is better to also tick the feature to ignore a raceif the P/L has not been settled?
I paper traded for a couple of days.Good results from it then I started on Wednesday live trading.I ran it through greybot using flat £5 stakes.26 wins 3 losses - profit of 9 units which is £45.It’s looking good!
Andy,
Personally I leave that unticked and just let it run through every race, but it’s entirely up to yourself.
A good start BernieBoy
You know,the 5 point staking plan when working with a big bank roll would never bust.I sifted through all the data from January 2000 to February 2008 and although there are some scary moments they are very very rare. I once saw 5 in a row loss and just a few 4 in a row.But that’s not the problem - it’s something like LLLLLWLLLLLWLLLLLLL if it ever happened.You know? If it ever occured it’s sweaty palms and andrex time…
But the nature of lay horse bets and Betalay strategy means that you could go years and years without experiencing that.Literally thousands and thousands of bets.If you had a 5000 point/unit bank to use (just to be paranoid about safety), I think you’d be set up long term…
I’m going to adopt this once I flat bet with it for a week or two to get my hand in.I emailed Betalay enquiring about this 5 point staking plan in Greybot and what they think.Anyone ever had any feedback from them or know of a Betalay users forum? Or is anyone here using the 5 point Greybot staking plan with betalay?
Cheers Bernie
Hi Bernieboy.
I started using it yesterday and it worked well. I started as a test with a £500 bank and £2.50 stakes and ended the day making £65 which is great for the low stakes. It could easily have been £650 at £25 stakes but I am not getting carried away and think it wise to stick to their advice in the document re structuring your bets around your betting bank (200/1 I think). I have emailed them too regarding the staking method and await their advice. I too would be interested to hear from anyone who can give some reassurance that a 5 point staking plan using the ratio they advise is safe. I note their results are based on flat stakes and I wonder why they are not using a staking plan. Certainly if they did use a good staking plan, their results would be much better. Finally, is there any reason why (given time and compounding the betting bank) that stakes could not go beyond £25.
Splitting any loss across the next 5 races was my idea rather than their’s and the only reason I suggested it was because the bot allows you to do this and it’s slightly less aggressive than splitting it across 4 races.
The staking plan is an additional option - really just something you ‘might’ want to use - and I think they’ve done the most sensible thing quoting their results to level stakes.
There isn’t any reason why you couldn’t use larger stakes, but like you say I’d only do it as your bank increases and you’re comfortable with the way your stakes increase after a winner or two.
Great start Andy. I too had a winning session yesterday but at flat stakes.I won 7 units all told,at £5 a unit.Add that to the 3 units won on Wednesday and 4 on Thursday,that’s 14x£5= £90 with a couple of quid off for betfair commission.
It would have been a couple of units more yesterday but I made a balls up when tinkering live with the bot.I closed it down and when I got it up and running again I missed a couple of races back to back which would have delivered 2 more units for me.
I’m still awaiting a reply from Betalay regarding my question about the staking plan.Although I think it’s proof that even at flat stakes the results are borne out.
As I said a couple of days ago, the higher your bankroll in relation to your staking unit the safer you’ll be.No result or run since January 2000 is severe enough to kill your bankroll if it is,say 2000-3000 to be ultra safe.Andy how does the 5-point plan work exactly? Say you lose £2.50 at 6/1 so your £15 down.On the very next race, does it split this £15 into 5, so your next bet is £3?
Hi Bernie
The staking seems to work quite well and no doubt would significantly increase your results each day if no losing run occurs. It splits your loss and devides it by 5 and then adds this to your usual stake for the next 5 bets until a full recovery is made. If you get another loss within the next 5 bets, I presume it starts again with your combined loss. It basically works like this:
Lost at 6/1 - £5 stake = -£30
Next bet - £5 usual stake Plus £6 (£30 devided by 5) = £11
Presuming your lay comes off the next bet would also be £11 and so on until a full recovery is made.
Staking however ensures that you win over all your races.
As I said, at only £2.50 stakes using the 5 staking plan, I was up £65.
Today seems to be going well to.
I’ve been using it for over a month now and I’m delighted with it. I’ve just done what’s been described, splitting a loss over five races, and I’ve make a grand profit so far.
My starting stake was £10.
I’ve yet to hit a sequence of wins, if it ever does happen, it’s all good so far though.
Hi Davey
What ratio ar you using for your bank and stake. You say you have made £1000. What bank did you start with and stake.
Are you sticking to the ratio they recommend?
Fraser how do you get around this. Presumably if you set the GHB to search 60 seconds before the off, you should avoid this as the prices hae already come in.
When you’re using the bot the only thing you can do is set it to place your bets as close to the off as possible. There isn’t really any way around that I don’t think.
Does the GHB use the SP prices or the Betfair prices ?
GHB is a bot that places your bet on Betfair, so you can only use Betfair prices.
If the prices range is (5,9) for Betalay (which are starting prices), which prices range should be set for the bot ?
Actually the equivalent prices on Betfair will be something like (7, 13) , which is pretty different..
Sandoz, the highest I’ve been doing with the bot is 9.4. I don’t think it makes much sense to go any higher than that.
Just a quick update on the 5 point staking plan. I carried over a loss of £48 from yesterday. This was because I aimed to recover £2.50 for each race. Due to a couple of losses, I was around £3 up on the session but around £48 down on my £2.50 per race plan.
Having carried over £48, the bot started today aiming for a recovery. There was a loss in the first race meaning a loss of £101. Anyway, with my bank of £500, the bot was setting my stakes at £71. If there had been another loss, I would have had £12 in my account. I let the bot continue at £71 stakes and bottled it at 3 further successful bets although the next 2 races would have been sucessful meaning a full recovery. I recouped my £550. A loss would have meant an end to the staking. I am setting my ratio at 200/1 but I don’t think this is enough. My view is that you probably need around £1000 to £1500 in your account to run £2.50 stakes with a 5 point staking plan and a guarantee of £2.50 for each race which would proably guarantee around £40 to £60 a day. . All I am saying is be careful with the staking plan unless you keep you stakes low and have a fairly decent bank.
Paul, what I want to know is :
which limits do you set the bot with, to be in tune with the Betalay rules?
@ Sandoz - I’ve been using 5.0 up to 9.4. Whether the guys at Betalay recommend something else I don’t know, but that’s what I’ve been using.
@ Andy - yes that makes perfect sense. I’ve never used the carryforward loss feature yet, but your numbers sound right. £40-£60 a day at that level would still do nicely
This thread is getting busy!
I was using level £10 bets and not using the staking plan for the first couple of weeks. Off that I made approximately £450. I’m now using the staking plan with about £1300 in my account and I’ve been ripping it up for the last week. £100-£150 profit some days and my worst two days in the entire 5 weeks have only cost me about £200 each time. I’ve always made up the loss from the big losers in two days or less.
I’ve withdrawn two lots of £500 from my account in the last week but after reading what you say I think I should reduce my stake to £5 and aim for £60-£80 a day, or increase my balance again? I might just drop my stake and treat myself with the cash I drew out!
@ Davey - keep your winnings, drop your stakes to a fiver, be happy with £50 (plus?) a day and increase your stakes when you’ve built up your bank again. Happy days
Paul, sorry to be a pest but I am anxious to get this set up right in view of the indifferent results due to me messing around with the settings.
I have been using for 3 days.
Day 1 - staking plan used and generated a nice £60 off only £2.50 bets.
Day 2 - ended the day £48 down using the staking plan
Day 3 - let the staking plan continue and after 2 early losses to open the day, I found the bot placing £71 bets. My £500 bank was at risk and I only had £12 in the account so another loss would have killed me. I bottled it and stopped the staking plan. I then left it at level stakes and today there were a total of 4 losses so I eneded the day at £500.
If we had say 3 to 4 losses each day at 9/1, it may well be that there would be losses on these days. I am not sure if 3 to 4 losses a day is likely and suspect by the results that it may not be.
Would you be kind enough to give me your input as to how to what leverage to use - i.e. bank to stake using the 5 point staking plan. Do you think £1500 for £2.50 bets is the way to go. If so, £500 bank would not be enough.
When you say you don’t carry over any losses. What do you do if you have a loss or 2 on the last 2 races. Do you just take it on the chin and start again.
Do you eliminate irish races or leave the whole card
How long have you been using the system sucessfully and what did you do when the 4 losses in a row hit.
If you want to email me, feel free.
Cheers buddy.
I’ve never actually hit 4 winners in a row. I saw that it did happen in January, but it was before I was putting my money down. I ran the bot for the last week or two in January, but only with two quid stakes and it wasn’t until the start of Feb when I backtested it (loosely - as I’ve said in the article above) that I thought “hey, this is interesting” and started looking at it more seriously.
Terry posted the sequence you’re talking about earlier:
L W W W W L L L L W W W L L W L
To keep this simple I’ll add a point to the SP of the first four winners and that gives us:
8.0
9.0
8.0
8.0
Using £5 stakes you lose £35 on the first one. That means the stake on the second is £5 plus £7 so £12 in total. You lose £96 on the second and that means the stake on your third is £5 plus £7 plus £19.20 so £31.12 in total. You lose £217.84 on the third so your stake on the fourth is £5 plus £7 plus £19.20 plus £43.58 so £74.77. You lose £523.39 on the fourth and your next stake would then be £180. At that stage you hit three wins and you claw back practically the whole loss from the fourth losing bet.
Then there are another 3 wins in the space of 4 bets, but two of these are only 4/1 so your liability would be far less than the first sequence above. Plus, your first recovery bets are starting to trickle off from your stakes by the time you hit these.
I’m talking from memory now, but I think this the worst sequence there has been in the last 8 years (feel free to check and correct me on that anyone) and I calculated what I’ve said here to £5 stakes, where you could reasonably expect to be making £70 upwards a day (a couple of grand clear a month I’d think). This sequence could have been handled with a grand in your account but I’d have to say you’d be feeling fairly anxious for a race or two.
So let’s say you operate with £2.50 stakes and a similar size of bank, aiming for what you said (£40 - £60 a day), this should be comfortably achieveable. I think.
Any thoughts on this anyone? If I’ve cocked up these figures please say
To answer your other questions:
1. Irish Racing. I see no reason why not.
2. I haven’t been carrying forwarded losses from previous days, but looking at this I should be and will do so from now on.
Everything I knew about this I mentioned in my initial article. The selections are correct, their results are correct and the odds are correct. Like I said originally, I think a profit could be achieved using level stakes, but it’s only now that we’re looking at the staking feature in the bot properly that I’m seeing the true potential in it. I thought it was good before, but this is far better
Here’s something else for you to think about:
The bot allows you to stop betting automatically after a sequence of wins or losses. How about you revert back to your standard stake after three consecutive losses?
Three in a row is very, VERY, rare (I’ll go back through the results later tonight to verify) so it would maybe be more sensible to cut your losses when this happens and avoid risking so much on your fourth bet, which let’s face it is the killer.
This would make your liabilities much easier to manage - almost too easy most of the time - and you would still be cleaning up in the long-term.
Iam going to buy the Betalay system in a couple of weeks time,is there anywhere
I can see the results for the last 8 years.Thanks.
Here you go John…..
The Betalay Horse Racing System
And for the bot…..
The Grey Horse Bot
You’ll see there are totals for each year about halfway down the page on the Betalay site. Click on each of the years and this takes you to a PDF file showing the results for each year.
Paul,
Your figures for the 5-point staking plan are spot on.But it still shows you that a freaky streak can occur even though it’s extremely rare,sometimes a once in years occurance from daily races.A 200 unit B.R. could be toast after this…I think anybody doing the 5-point stak plan should not be under-bankrolled.Sorry Andy and I’m glad you’re back to your £500.But really, a 200 unit B.R. is too small for 5-point stakings.Far too small.
I’m chugging along fine - 4 units today and 6 units yesterday @£5 per unit to add to the 13 units won between Wed-Sat.All done flat-betting.It’s all about your temperment and discipline - someone may dive in headfirst and he’s under bankrolled then BANG! it’s all gone in a few races.Or the long term view and plan can be taken - the horses aren’t going anywhere,after all,and neither is Betfair.
That’s why when I do undertake the staking plan (very soon) I’m going in with at least a 5000 unit/point B.R. to cover and kill stone dead any bad run or losing streak from the 9th circle of hell that may hit me.
I’ve still got my bonus hunting hat on here.I know laying doesn’t deliver anywhere near the losing streaks that Blackjack or Baccarat does,nowhere remotely near because of it’s nature,but I’m ultra careful and know how vitally important a large B.R. is.
Nice thread this and folks do seem to be doing o.k generally,but it’s important to be careful with this and don’t blow any winnings upping stakes till a respectable B.R. is achieved.And not to chase losses.Sorry for banging on but I’ve got a horror story to tell about indiscipline when gambling.I taught my pal to get started with the poker/casino bonus hunting.He did well over a couple of months,earned about £800(great these days as the whole bonus hunting scene is rapidly going down the toilet) He lost a couple bonuses,panicked,redeposited,lost again.Two hours later he was in tears on the phone and at his wits end.He’d not only blown his &800 winning but a further £14000 from maxed out credit cards.His p.c. ended up out on the street after he’d chucked it out the window..
He’s okay now and dealing with it and slowly getting his debts down.But nomore gambling for him.He can’t handle it as many can’t
Sensibility and slow measured gains is the order of the day
Paul
I will go along with what you suggest. It makes far more sense to have the staking if safeguards can be built in to ensure that when that killer sequence comes in (even if only once) it does not wipe us out. I would like to see how often the 3 win sequence comes up as this might be the solution. I am increasing my bank to £1000 and betting £2.50 stakes with the 5 point recovery and carrying over losses to the next day. This should ensure a certain profit most days with the occasional carry over to the next day.
I too will look into the 3 win sequence.
@ Bernie - I made a few quid some years ago playing out casino bonuses with basic blackjack strategy, but the same money isn’t there any longer. You can still make a bit, but nothing like the way it was 4 or 5 years ago. I think you’re better off on the exchanges now
@ Andy - I’ll look at the past results more closely tonight too.
Paul - Just a point to remember is the results on the web site are SP and not using the bot which means we may not get matched bets with the shortened time to fire in from the bot? I did similar calcualtions for recovery over 5 bets and by 4 losses in a row @ 5 pound stakes using 7.0 as the price your next lay over 5 bets was 59.40 and your accumaleted loss was 530 pounds.
What time to start do you set on the bot?
Yeah, I mentioned that in my original article Fraser and in the figures I posted tonight I added a point on, so this equated to about 15% over SP. When I first looked at the last 8 years data I figured you could still turn a profit factoring in paying 5% commission on winning bets too.
Any time in the last 2-3 minutes before the off is probably fine for using with the bot.
I’ve been flying by the seat of my pants!
Advice taken. I know what I’ll be doing tomorrow!
Thanks Paul…I’m in Australia so I’m checking results for this system and paper trading here for Aussie races as currently I set my bot for British races and off to bed. If Aussie races are good you guys in the UK could set and forget while you sleep!
Does anyone do the Irish races and if so are the results silmilar to British?
The only problem with the AU races could be liquidity Fraser. You’ll know more about that than me probably though.
The Irish racing doesn’t differ much UK racing. The results might actually be better for that.
Got what a job going through these results. So far:
2008 -1 x 4 win sequence 0 x 3 win sequence (exclusing 4 win)
2007 - 0 x 4 win 11 x 3 win sequence
2006 - 1 x 4 win and 11 x 3 win.
I don’t necessarilily think the problem is with the winning sequence but more with the WLWLWLWLWLWL or anything like where we do not have an opportunity to recovery fully using the 5 point stake. Otherwise we are always chasing.
Bernie. I take on board your comments and have doubled my bank. What concerns me is the difference in our results from flat betting. I had 4 losers today and around 13 winners. IF we used a £5 stake that would mean £65 winning and £120 in loses (assuming 8/1 for the losing lays). I just don’t think flat betting it in the long term can be that successful as you will not get matched as many times as the results show as they are at SP. I think a 5 point plan should work but it would be sensible to have a cut off to stop the bot after 3 or 4 wins in a row.
Does anyone know whether selecting stop at 3 wins will stop at 3 winning horses or 3 winning lays. I don’t want to set it to stop at 3 and when I have 3 succesful lays in a row it stops on me.
Sorry Bernie. What bank would you suggest for £2.50 staking. I was thinking 400 to 1, i.e. £1000 for the staking.
Davey - Are you using Irish races and does anyone set their bot for stop at profit for the day?
@ Andy - where the bot is concerned “wins” are where you win and vice versa. I’m sure that’s correct.
@ Fraser - I would be absolutely confident about the Irish races. I haven’t tried stop at a profit though.
Did anyone have 2 losses today using the bot??
(I only use UK (not irish) as I have been suffering quite a few loses on the irish races over the last 2 days.)
Today loses for me was Albaqaa @ 8.8 = loss - £82.06 at 16.20 and Somersby @ 8.60 = loss - £79.95.
I had about 14 wins today @ £10. which is my net gain per race.
My net for the day is loss @ - £22.01.
(I am not carrying any loses over as my bank can’t sustain it at the mo.)
I had 2 nasty losses at end of day yesterday also from irish racing (is what put me off irish racing certainly) . Major Hayward at cork yesterday at 17.15 and Panzer Chief at 17.25 @ 5.90.
Can anyone help as I need to check i have the right settings on the bot. My odds are 5.0 - 9.0 and i come in at 60 secs. Can anyone who has been making money on a daily basis tell me PLEASE what setting to use and have you had problems with the Irish races.
Does anyone stop after making a certain profit each day to avoid any of those nasty loses ??
Many many thanks, Ed.
Andy - If as you say the Betfair prices are about 15% greater than SP then perhaps 5.0 to 9.0 prices should be set to 6.0 to 10.0 for Betfair otherwise they do not fit the catagory for winners %.
Has anyone used different settings other than 5.0 to 9.0?
Hi Ed
I think your settngs are correct as per the manual. The manual defintely says avoid Irish racing as the stats do not match those for the UK racing. I left it in. Somersby was at Huntington and Albaqaa was at Redcar.
@ Fraser - I’ll stand corrected about the Irish racing
did anyone get the same losses as myself today (UK racing, not irish) and yesterdays (UK and Irish.) ?
Ed - I had my bot set @ 38 secs at 5.0 to 9.0 for stakes and managed a profit today of $18.90 from level $10 stakes. I do not include Irish as they wiped out my bank for the last 2 days as well. In summary I had 9 winners and 1 loss today.
If you do the maths from all the Betalay results they are averaging a daily profit of about $67 from stakes of $25 (sorry it’s in dollars as my keyboard in Australia doesn’t have pounds) so about 2.7 times their daily stake. Therefore at $10 stakes we should be happy with a daily average profit of $27.
Today if I had set at stop at $50 I would have had this in the first 5 races but then if you do this daily then when a loss comes in you cannot get this all back as you may then follow with $100 profit the next day. Best to just leave stop at profit 999.
Overall I’m up by $100 for 5 days work at $10 level stakes so no complaints.
The only thing I’ve done different is increase the high odds to 9.4 - most of have been well under that anyway though so I doubt it’s made a lot of difference.
R.E. Andy about the staking plan : You make a good point about the losing streaks.It’s not so much the losing 4-in-a-row as the dreaded WLWLWLWLWLWL scenario.I’ve trawled through the results again since Jan.2000 again for an hour or so and 3-in-a-row comes in about 10 times a year on average.4-in-a-row once perhaps twice or even thrice.Some years not at all.5-in-a-row I think I saw once in the 8 years.6-in-a-row and beyond,no.No chance.
That’s why when staking it’s vital to be bankrolled and heavily bankrolled at that.The above chop WLWLWLWLWLWLWLwould spell trouble for a 200 unit B.R.(but that streak is an absolute freak - I think I saw it once in the results - perhaps one or two LESS WL if anything) You’d be clawing back slightly only to fall away again,then again and again and bang! B.R. gone with the increased staking. A 400-500 unit B.R. would give that above streak a good fight(assuming average 6/1 liability for each lay),but as I said when I start staking (probably next week) I’m going to have a 5000 B.R.(that’s five thousand units/points)
I’m confident looking from the results that a B.R. of this size will clobber anything it throws at me, and as I (hopefully) start to gain winnings, I’ll adjust my unit size accordingly,but still ensuring the 5000 unit B.R. is still there.I will also employ a 4-in-a-row loss stop on the bot.Stop,reassess then begin again,taking a very moderate loss knowing that I’ll get that small loss back soon.
I stick to the strategy guidelines but I employ the non-runner option to cease the bet and also absolutely no Irish racing.I do notice that when loading the U.K. market it includes the Irish card,so I simply select the British races and click O.K.
To return briefly to streaks.Anyone who has gone through the historical results can’t have failed to notice the enormous winning streaks:) 10-20 odd is not uncommon,sometimes 30 and beyond.I think I counted 50+ too once…
As for my start time - I choose between10 seconds and 75 seconds before race - I think it’s a good ides to chop and change every day.
As Paul and Craig said,a staking plan again has to be sensible, meticulous and rigorously executed.Too many people slip up with them and it’s their B.R. which is “executed”
Jeez I’ve rambled on too much,too many beers I think..:)
But I want to see people do well with this and I must say it’s turning into a great site/forum.Well done Paul and Craig.I appreciate your efforts.
Thanks Paul
I’ve done some stats for everyone on this forum given the strike rate is 88%. This is based on an average no. of races on Betalay per year as being 6500.
3 wins in a row (losses) - 11 times per year
4 wins in a row (losses) - 1.3 times per year
5 wins in a row (losses) - 0.24 times per year (once every 7.7 years)
I’ll have to check how this against the real results although no 5 wins have occured yet, unless I missed it.
Fraser.
Bernie. I agree entirely with what you ar doing although I am probably minded to stop the bot at 3 until a huge bank is established. 5000:1 atio is massive and would certainly kill a losing streak. That means for a £2.50 stake, you wrould have a bank of £12500 to make around £40 to £60 a day. I just don’t have that much available at present as most of my money is tied up in Forex. I am winging it on a 400 to 500:1 ratio.
My concern re the WLWLW sequence is that as you get to the end of the cycle are you going to get matched on a £500 or £600 lay at under 9.0. I am at work at the moment but I would be interested if someone could do the calculations on the WLWLWLWLWLWL streak as far as they can and project how far we could go before the numbers get silly and then check this against the results.
I’ve spent a lot of time looking at this today and I’m struggling to find any flaws in it at all. I’ve ran reports, factored in commission, factored in various degrees of price increase to account for Betfair and I just keep coming back to the same conclusion - if you’re sensible about the level you stake, operate with the kind of bank we’ve spoken about and set the bot to stop after 4 consecutive winners (losing bets for us), it seems quite infallible.
In the last 8 years 4 wins a row has only been happening on average 1.3 times per year (thanks Fraser) and using £2.50 stakes this would only cost you £250-£300 just over once per year. There are other occassions when you would lose some if you hit a sequence of close wins in a small series of bets (as Andy and Bernie said), but nothing major. Plus, this is easily covered by the fact that on average you should be making £40-£60 a day. And that’s with £2.50 stakes!
If you were to start at this level and increase your stake by 50% every time your bank doubled, you could be taking a decent wage from it from month one and by the end of year one you would be staking a lot more than £2.50 per bet and pulling in a substantial monthly profit from it.
I haven’t even tempted my imagination by working that out, but it’s a LOT!
Perhaps Paul would know how betfair works with tthe match betting,say for instance if someone got to a £500 lay bet at say 6/1.Would it be taken? I don’t know,that’s why perhaps flat betting would be better if not and just do it over a long time.But I think it’s still carries a risk,I mean you never know what can happen in gambling.If something can happen it probably will,lol,there are prople who can testify to that for sure.Just plod along with it and let’s see how we get on.It’s wise also not to drop money you can’t afford to lose cause if you did it would be disasterous.I can drop £25000 to betfair but it’s money I can afford to lose which I bagged through the bonus hustling over the past few years.If I do lose my B.R. I’ll still have my life and not end up out on the street.Ouch!!
Losing days will occur too,it’s all how you handle losing too and seeing your B.R. drop.
The volumes are pretty high now Bernie. We just had a low-grade hurdle at Sedgefield there and 1/2 Million was matched. It’s much higher than that when the racing is half-decent.
Paul,
So it’s not really a question of that £500 being personally matched 1to1,it’s a question of how much is in the collective pot?
I,ve noticed that a lot of these races have huge pots before the off and in-race betting boosts it up even more.I think the in-race betting would be something to consider but you’d really need to know what you’re doing!
I am quite excited by this as you guys seems to be. I can tell by the hours that are being put into the research and the time posts are being made. Whilst I totally agree with the aim of the site, do you think this is something that we should be promoting to the world at large. Maybe I am being a bit sceptical but the concern is that over time with more and more involved, the price of that 3rd favourite in that 30 to 90 second timeframe will be pushed in as we all compete to get the lay on meaning we miss opportunities. Is there any way this thread could be moved to a private forum or something.
Guys
We have flirted around the betting bank ratio at various levelsranging from 200/1 (not enough) to 5000/1. What ratio do you guys think is the absolute minimum ratio to protect against a run. I was thinking 1000:1. By this I mean £2,500 betting bank for £2.50 stakes or £5000 bank for £5 stakes.
Hi
I’m thinking of buying the GHB to use with my own selection process.
I use a 4 step recovery plan similar to ones mentioned in this thread, however reading through the user manual it states that the staking feature has been disabled.
I noticed that some of you guys seem to be using this feature and am interested to know if this is actually available, and if it is, are you allowed to alter the number of recovery steps.
Thanks
Jeff
Sorry if my answers seem swift tonight - I’ll be back later but need to go out soon.
@ Bernie - half a million was the amount matched before the off on one of the worst races at one of worst courses around today. The amount that’s matched in-play would be minimal compared to that and it isn’t really important for our purposes for what we’re doing here.
@ Andy - we don’t get much traffic here and I think Betalay has been promoted more actively elsewhere for a long time before this. For using the staking feature with what we’ve discussed I think you were right that 400/1 should comfortably handle it. You could probably get away with using much less most of the time but 2-3 times a year you would probably need that to feel safe about what you were doing.
@ Jeff - the staking feature has been disabled when you first download it, but there are instructions for getting it activated again and you can do it more or less instantly. You just need to agree to something that states you understand that recovery plans can be risky. It’s just a legal thing. And yes, you can alter the number of steps involved.
This is a very interesting and lively comments here.
Anyway, about 10 days together, I have made a profit £84 from banking of £200 by using £2.50 stake so far.
Betalay system look like a real winner but I need more time to test it out in three weeks. I don’t want to expect too much if I can make a lot of money with Betalay in the future but I will have to work it out myself on GHB configuration. I must be slow and patience!
I keep update with you later!
Jono
Jono, are you using a recovery plan on losses or carry loss any loses to the next day ?
Ed…
I simple carry on all straight races every day but some days when I made sufficient profit then I stop it myself.
Cheers,
Jono
Does anyone know when the bot is set to stop at 4 or 5 losses whether this means total losses for the day or in a row losses.
Guys
Here is the response from Betalay re the WLWLWLWLWLWLW sequence and a staking plan
“The WLWLWLWLWLWL is an unusual one (but is of course possible) – any staking plan would get into trouble with that type of sequence, so without manual intervention the bot should be set to stop at a certain level of loss to avoid undue damage to the betting bank (the stop loss figure would depend on your stakes). I would expect that a 500 point bank would be sufficient to overcome the inevitable peaks and troughs of using loss recovery with the bot. I would strongly advise you to set a stop loss figure. Personally I don’t use staking with the bot.”
What do you think re setting stop in proportion to the betting bank. I was thinking a 600:1 ratio. By that I mean if you are on £2.50 stakes, a £1500 stop should be the way to go in the event that the worse case scenerio happened. I say this because BEtalay advise a 500:1 ratio to deal with any bad runs.
Sorry guys I seem to ahve messed up your system!
Been following with great interest over the last month or so, got the system and the bot - paper traded to around 40-60 a day ( using 2.50 stakes) After work tonight I went “live” on the Race meeting at Wolves. Sad to report my first 2 horses both won! Leaving me with a loss of 83.11!
Fingers crossed I haven’t cursed your system for ever!
Andy, setting the bot to stop after ‘x’ losses means in a row as opposed to in a day. I think stopping the recovery after 4 losses in a row would be the most sensible option, as Fraser pointed out that kind of bad run won’t happen often (once a year I think) and stopping it there ensures all previous profits are nice and safely tucked away
Bump - that is the law according to sod I’m afraid!
@ Bump - the first two races at Wolves tonight were winners for us and the third and fourth were losers. If it’s those two you’re referring to £83 seems on the high side. Covering all four qualifying races at Wolves went like this to:
+£2.50
+£2.50
-£20.00
-£45.50
Total: -£60.50
I left a bit of room in the odds there, so the loss should really have been less.
Everything was going swell this afternoon, but it ended up a loser for me today too.
Same for me. 2 losses in the last 2 races at around the figures you say. Presumably the way to go is to carry over the £65 loss and let the staking plan set in. An early losser today might worry us. We need the first 5 races to help us catch up. Fingers crossed.
@ paul Sorry my post wasn’t very clear. I missed the first race at Wolves, so I started on the 7.20 and just got the 2 losses. As you guys have stated I am not to concerned as paper trading proves that you do get little runs of bad luck. Saying that I won’t be a happy bunny if the first one steams in today!
Strike Rate Anticipation of losing sequences in a series of 600-650 bets
(%) Expected 50:50:00 Unlikely Very Unlikely
(75% chance) (50% chance) (25% chance) (<1% chance)
80 3 5 5 7
81 3 4 5 7
82 3 4 5 7
83 3 4 5 7
84 3 4 5 6
85 3 4 4 6
86 3 4 4 6
87 2 4 4 6
88 2 4 4 6
89 2 4 4 5
90 2 3 4 5
Just a little help on the stats front.
Sorry formatting has gone to pot. Should workout if you cut and paste into excel
@ Bump - yeah, that was definitely a case of sods law I’m afraid
@ John - I know the site you got this from and reference it myself quite regularly. The funny thing is that the results from the last 8 years have performed far better than probability would predict.
Well, what an enthralling read this is turning into!! Been reading it for days, thought I better join in now. I’ve been a user of GHB for quite a while, and having read favourable things about Betalay bought it a few months ago. I personally like to have a bit more input into the selection process, but now use the Betalay principal as the starting point. Works well, I’ve never been one for loss recovery but reading all of the above I’m feeling a bit more encourage.
A couple of things I would say about the Betalay results and using a bot such as the GHB. I think the points about the additional % above Betfair and taking commission into consideration are spot on - especially as it’s still pointing towards a profit. My problem is whether you end up laying the same runner as the one that will appear on the Betalay results. If you monitor the market with something like Fairbot or Betangel with a 0.1 second refresh rates (as that’s the speed the GHB will look at the odds at) and you’ll often see 3 or more runners swapping positions 2, 3, 4 etc in the blink of an eye. It’s no wonder people are laying different selections even if they look at the market just a few seconds apart.
One way you could get around that, assuming in the last few seconds before the off the Betfair prices will reflect SP, is to use the disparity feature in GHB to make sure there’s not a few horse competing for selection. You could set it to make sure the horse below is 0.5 odds difference and likewise the runner above - you’ll get less selections but at least you’ll have confidence that the runner is the clear selection based on the criteria.
A different slant you could put on it would be to use the matched volume feature on GHB, that will rank runners by money matched rather than price, but in essence that’s what dictates SP, but would not take into account drifters or steamers.
A thought about Irish racing not producing the results – and I don’t really know anything about Irish racing – could be to use the total market volume feature. I know it’s a general rule of thumb amongst traders not to get involved until £250k has been matched as the market hasn’t made a proper opinion until then. I don’t how many Irish races get above that figure – but at least you can guarantee removing the races with not enough liquidity.
Anyway, that was just a few thoughts I had. I’d ask people to do there own research before jumping in!!!
And another thing I forgot to mention which someone might want to look into (particularly the losing run “stattos” amongst you). I came across a system called The Stable Income Plan (dot net) a few months ago, I say come across, what I mean is they spammed me to death!!
Anyway, when you look at the website it’s practically word for word the same as Betalay, but obviously selecting a different priced runner (easy to work out) with maximum odds of 4/1 instead of 8/1. They show their results to £100 stakes instead of £25.
So we have Betalay with 8/1 maximum odds, £25 stakes, and a profit of £24,672 in 2007. Then we have The Stable Income Plan with 4/1 maximum odds, £100 stakes, and a profit of £48,883 in 2007. But which is better? There’s only one way to find out!….
Hank, you’ve made some great points all round. I can’t even add much to what you’ve said, because I agree with all of it
12 wins from 13 qualifying races today guys? With one 9/2 winner? That was a good result!
~ Paul
Well well well. We seem to be having a very tough time of it over the last 2 days. After finishing off the day yesterday with 2 consequetive losing bets, I was set up today to recover around £80. We have had another bad run. After getting to the 4th stage of the recovery we then hit another losing bet which set us back followed by a win and then another heavy loss. It seems that we are having a difficult sequence and need desparately a run of 5 wins to get us back to our usual stake. From my £2.50 stakes my next bet looks like it is going to be around £90 and if I hit another loss at 8/1, that could be all over as far as my £1,000 betting bank is concerned. I am not sure whether any betting bank would be able to cope with a run like this. We only have a possiblity of 2 qualifying races at Wolverhampton tonight so it looks like those of us using the staking plan will be starting off tomorrow needing 3 wins in a row. That is of course if we don’t have a loss tonight. Fingers crossed.
Hi Paul
My results are different to yours for some strange reason. Any idea why?
My bot placed the following losing bets:
320 exeter - Charlies Future at 5.80 (selection won)
405 Lingfield - Dodaa 6.0 (won)
520 Ayr - Big boots - 7.0 (won)
8 wins and 3 losses.
I thought my settings were the same as yours although I have my odds at 4 to 9 and I am placed my bet around 63 seconds before the off.
Mmm, two of the ones you had there weren’t qualifiers for me Andy. Without wanting to give the whole thing away the last wasn’t close to being a qualifier. I had 13 qualifying races and only winner today - your other one which was layed at 6.0 - and that was it all day.
@ Andy
I don’t want to give away anything but I believe that your bot settings are slighty incorrect. I got the same results as Paul today
Paul That is very strange. I have the settings exactly as the manual suggests and I am sure the price must have been in the range for it to get selected. I am going to go and check my settings but you say you have had 13 selections. I didnt. I had 11 and one of those you say was not a selection for you. Paul would you mind emailing me to tell me what settings you have.
John thanks for your input. For those who will be betting to level stakes, what do you suggest is the ideal ratio in terms of bank to stake to overcome a bad run. You say no more than 1%. Is this your liability or stake. I.e. if someone was on a £1000 bank, would they stake £10 per race or fix their liability at £10. You see the problem with automating it with the GHB is we need a fixed stake which we can increas as the betting bank grows. When I was deciding between level stakes and recovery, I was looking at the difference in the 2. With a successful staking plan you would make your stake at every race. With level stakes, with 2 or 3 losing lays a day, you would be playing catch up most of the time. Betalay state that they have a 88% strike rate. On a worst case scenerio over 100 bets, and staking £10, that would be £880 profit (88 wins at £10) and up to £960 losses (12 losses at up to 8/1). Does this make sense or have I got this completely wrong.
I have just purchased the betalay system and next step is to buy bot to run this on auto. I am a total novice and been reading this thread with interest.
On the system instructions it mentions you can set a profit target or and a loss target, or stop after a certain number of winners or losses.
May I ask what is the norm if you want to set and forget on auto.
Also on the instructions it does go into setting a recovery on auto, any advice on this will be appreciated.
One last point in process of opening a betfair account, after you have set your bot settings as per instructions do you still have to download races every day. As I read earlier in the thread that some people do not like Irish races, can you get the bot not to look at these races.
Once again appreciate any advice
I
Hi, I’ve just stumbled across this site and this whole betalay/ghb thing seems intriguing. It looks like quite a few people have been using this system for a while now with considerable success. Would someone be kind enough to answer a couple of questions for me? If so, here goes:
Does this work with level stakes?
Is the automation TRUE automation (i.e. it needs no help from me!)?
I think some of you have been using this for over 6 weeks now - can you let me know how long you’ve been using it, how much REAL cash you’ve made (and what stakes/bank you’ve used)?
Thanks ever so much in anticipation of any help you can give to an elderly novice!
Andy,
I believe that what you’ve been saying about your selections today are probably nothing to worry about.So long as you’re sticking to the recommended parameters it’ll be o.k. When you come into bet(or Greybot actually) makes a difference regarding the results others are experiencing.I too suffered a losing day and had the same ratio and winning races/horses as yourself.I set it to 54 seconds today but will change for later today.I can see your point about flat bets but that’s not the whole picture.Some days you’ll lose flatting as compared to staking but overall I think the results/unit wins will level out,in fact may be more flatbetting because your flat bet stake can be much higher in relation to your B.R. than could be achieved via staking and then compounding it …I did say that I thought a 5000 unit B.R. was probably necessary for staking.That was confirmed by Jack from Betalay who said that a very large unit B.R. is required to ensure complete safety.A horrendous run while staking could wipe you out even with a B.R. of say,2000-3000 he said but flat betting this would never happen.They say a 200 unit B.R. is ideal for flat betting and over the years 100 units has never been dipped into once.It’s purely for safety and reassurance to have 100 in reserve.
Angie, Ive been using it flat betting for a week now (@£5 per unit and I’ve made 14 x £5 = £90 (this was more but I lost 11 units today.)With Greybot it does everything.All the user has to do is input his/her required parameters and the bot does the rest as instructed.
Joe,Its upto yourself if you want a stop win/loss.You simply load up the bot and load up the racing market option.It then connects to Betfair and loads in the racing card for that day.You can then select U.K. only races.It filters out all non British races and you can pick and choose some or all of them for the bot to bet on.Irish races are not recommended because of some inconsistent results cited by Betalay.The bot loads them in in addition to British races but I manually delete them.
I was confused by the bot too at first but spending some time with it initially paper or dummy trading makes it all second nature before you start to live trade.
Andy, you know, I don’t want to see you get burned with this staking from a 500 unit B.R. From what I’ve been reading of your posts you’ve sailed close to the wind a couple of times…Not for me to knock anyone,but just think that a couple of days ago you said that one more losing lay would have blown your B.R.What you said about the ratio is true but that is a worst case scenario.I’m going to flat bet for a while now myself and just leave the staking idea for now.I want to get a proper feel and handle on this for a few weeks.I’m quite prepared to have a few losing days at this and it will happen much more than with staking but I believe over the long term that level staking will yield greater profits.It will be a bummer to have some losing days or even weeks but it’s a long term thing.Going through the results from the past 8 years,they had some bad days or even weeks but every year they made good gains.
@ Bernie - good advice
@ Angie/Joe - I think Bernie answered your questions there. If not, the answer probably lies further up this thread.
@ Andy - my final total for yesterday was about 15 winners and only the one loser at 6.0. I had three at the evening meeting and they all got beat. Maybe the prices were jumping about yesterday and that was why you had those other two - don’t know to be honest. If you check the results you’ll see that one of them definitely wasn’t even close to qualifying at SP. I guess it depends on what the odds were when your bet was placed.
Bernie/Paul many thanks for your post. I think I am inclined to agree with you Bernie that Fflat betting must be the way to go if we don’t have that 5000 unit BR. I might cut cut my losses from yesterday and flatbet from now in for a while and then fund my account when I have complete confidence in staking.
Bump/Paul - re the settings. I have checked with the Betalay manual and the settings are exactly as they should be. Paul from earlier posts I think you use slightly higher odds than the manual. I think you said you go about 0.6 above the recommendation. So far I have stuck to the figures they suggest. I think the explanation is that if the price moves around quite a bit around the time we are placing our stakes we all get different selections. It also has something to do with the time we set the bot to start searching. I am at around 63 seconds. I note that Bernie had similar results to me yesterday and I think he was searching at 6.3 seconds. I am not sure what the correct search is. I have now set the disparity feature so this might make a difference.
I was doing it a couple of minutes before the off Andy. I didn’t watch many of the races so couldn’t tell you what happened with the betting.
Re: level staking, I’ve done that for the last two days too. One bot using staking and the other doing £20 level bets. The £2.50 stakes were never going to keep my attention for long
I have too bought the betalay system, but having problems setting it in my greyhorse bot? anyone willing to email me to help? thanks
Excuse my ignorance on the flat staking but is this how it works?
My bank is £2,000 - so using the 200 BR I can stake £5 on each race. Do I lay with a total liability of £5 on each race or simply lay the selection with £5?
again excuse my ignorance please!
Paul
Would you be able to post your results using the staking and the level stakes and let me know how each compares.
With the £20 stakes, what bank are you using. And the same with staking.
Cheers
I’ve just bought the betalay system and subscribed to the ghb, on the strength of your comments! It’s a pretty simple system in all fairness, but clearly the stats seem to stack up. I think I’ll paper trade it on the ghb to begin with, as this sort of technology’s all new to me. Would someone be kind enough to let me know the exact settings required for ghb to operate the betalay system to flat stakes? (I’m happy to email proof that I’ve purchased the system if required).
Hi Angie
All you do is load the settings exactly as they tell you on the GHB. We can’t give the system away openly as it wouldmean others do not actually buy it. All you do is follow the page on the manual that refers to using the automated software. Then you go to options and session. Then you put the amount of seconds you want the bot to search just before the off. Usually anything between 30 seconds and 2 minutes would be fine. Make sure yourusing the horse racing instead of greyhound from the drop down menue. Set your stake and your parameters for the odds and the number horse you are backing. Just follow the manual.
Bump - I think you select your stake at £5 mate and that should do. There is no point having a liabilty of £5 as this would mean no bets would be placed as the minute back stake on betfair is £2. At the odds they give you you would never get a bet within those odds at a liability of £5. The 200 point bank is just there to cover a losing streak from hell. If your staking in a recovery plan the general consensus is that you would need a 5000 point betting bank which will take time to get to.
Paul
Is it possible to contact any poster here by private email?